The Fuss Over Grids and CSS Frameworks

Posted November 18, 2007 • 8 Comments

A protracted discussion about CSS frameworks like Blueprint has broken out over at Jeff Croft’s blog. I respect everyone contributing to it, but the energy spent on that topic seems ridiculous with a capital R.

One of the only comments which spoke to me was by Jon Hicks:

I mentioned CSS frameworks on The Rissington Podcast, and my words were ‘make your own frameworks’. I think its a great idea to use and pick apart existing frameworks, but better when you make up you own.

Yes. Study the others, but create your own. That is airtight logic that should apply to nearly everything in the creative process. Hicks simply came out and said it.

But in all seriousness, what professional developer in 2007 doesn’t already have his own “framework”? Whose idea of an efficient workflow involves starting CSS completely from scratch for every new project?

Back in May, I’d seen Eric Meyer’s writing on “baseline stylesheets” and decided to publish and document my own (which later got a sweet mention in Smashing Magazine). As you can see, it includes specifications that I use in every single website. The global resets, the browser fixes, the basic header declarations. It’s all I’ve ever needed and it works in every browser. Little did I know it constituted a “framework” until Blueprint caused a sensation.

I’ve looked through Blueprint, and about 20% of it is useful to me. That 20% I’ve since adapted to my own baseline stylesheet, ahem, framework. It’s what Hicks was saying: make it your own. If Blueprint, et al, have gotten flack it’s because CSS specialists don’t want to spoon-feed mediocre developers who don’t actually know CSS very well. Point taken. But developers will always use shortcuts and tools in this fashion — not everyone using Rails is a master of Ruby.

Back in March, Khoi Vinh published a bit about using typographic grids to design websites. Khoi Vinh does a fantastic analysis. But to me, this was like hearing an architect like Norman Foster give a big speech about how buildings should have bathrooms and fire-exits while the international architecture community loudly applauds. For awhile, every blogger was discussing “grids” as though it was a new layout concept, as they’re discussing CSS frameworks now. Without even realizing I was doing it, I began describing Mimbo as “a grid-based layout” just because that terminology had suddenly become inescapable.

My point isn’t that the discussions should stop. I’m just surprised by the sensation they create and the disagreements they spark. The best you can do is use what tools benefit you personally. It doesn’t matter what they’re called or how they’re characterized.

  • http://www.nathanrice.net/ Nathan Rice

    Wow, God bless you for saying it!!!

    CSS isn’t PHP … period. It doesn’t need a framework!!!

    A skeleton??? Maybe … sure. I use ‘em. Built ‘em myself. But that’s all it is … a skeleton. Very basic layout stuff, with maybe a few styles as placeholders.

    But there is a big difference between frameworks for PHP, something that is VERY useful, and frameworks for design elements. Would anyone use a “framework” in Photoshop? Nope.

    That is without mentioning that a CSS framework is useless without an accompanying XHTML “framework”.

    Yeah, you said it bro.

  • Darren

    “That is without mentioning that a CSS framework is useless without an accompanying XHTML “frameworkâ€?.

    Right – a whole other can of worms!

    Funny timing, but in the past week I’d been thinking about releasing my own “framework”. The idea would be to package my baseline PSD file, CSS file and XHTML file together and release them for download, since it’s been a large help to my own workflow. All the layer names in the PSD also match certain CSS classes (masthead, nav, footer) and are marked up accordingly in the XHTML file. I wouldn’t expect anyone to necessarily use the files as is, but if enough people did the same thing it would be a great opportunity to check out each other’s creative processes.

  • http://thenestedfloat.com Matt Dawson

    I couldn’t agree with you more on this. Take what you can use from wherever you find it and run with it. Period. The debate is important and provides some good food for thought, but this one got weirdly personal really fast.

    In case you missed it, Jeff just pointed to a *fantastic* post about the difference between frameworks, libraries, and snippets, written by an experienced programmer.

    http://www.b-list.org/weblog/2007/nov/19/frameworks/

    It confirms a hunch I’ve had since I first started reading about these CSS frameworks: Namely, ‘framework’ just isn’t the right word for the set of tools that CSS designers are creating.

  • http://www.redneck-world.com redneck

    wonderful designs!

  • http://www.newaffiliatediscoveries.com Suzanne of New Affiliate Discoveries

    Darren,

    Your site is the first I’ve come across the term “grid based layouts”. But as an informational graphic artist for the Daily Collegian at Penn State (many, many years ago), the idea of the basic grid based layout being applied to web & CSS is a natural evolution.

    I see this “technology” or perhaps “terminology” becoming a seamless integration of old fashioned typography, paste up and grid based newsprint layouts with the current technologies of AJAX and CSS.

    In 2 years, we’ll wonder what all the fuss was about!

    BTW, if you release your package as you describe above, I’ll be the first to download it!

  • Be a Good Daughter

    Hello this article is amazing.
    I like your diary..
    Thanks

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  • Pablo

    Css framework save you time. (Period)