<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: GolfChannel.com Borrows Design and Layout From NCGolfers</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/</link>
	<description>A Blog, Portfolio and Personal Website</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Espen Uldal</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/#comment-22107</link>
		<dc:creator>Espen Uldal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 23:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/#comment-22107</guid>
		<description>Let's hold the horses, huh? This is the Internet - how many combinations are there, and how meny sites are there on the net?

What are the similarities? The big picture? WOW! Never seen that before? Apart from that, the two sites don't have anything in common that leads me to the word "similarities".

If it's just the big picture, then this site is also a copy: http://www.jointhegolfers.com/

Like I said: The Internet is still young, and variations not that many... Yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s hold the horses, huh? This is the Internet - how many combinations are there, and how meny sites are there on the net?</p>
<p>What are the similarities? The big picture? WOW! Never seen that before? Apart from that, the two sites don&#8217;t have anything in common that leads me to the word &#8220;similarities&#8221;.</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s just the big picture, then this site is also a copy: <a href="http://www.jointhegolfers.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.jointhegolfers.com/</a></p>
<p>Like I said: The Internet is still young, and variations not that many&#8230; Yet.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Darren</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/#comment-19447</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 22:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/#comment-19447</guid>
		<description>Roger, that's a great idea for a separate blog post! I do have clients ask that a few times a year: "Can't we just copy (our competitor's) design and layout?"

My answer is, of course, no, but I try different techniques to convince them without disappointing them. 

It's often best to just point out that aping someone else's design is self-defeating. If you pay lots of money for a clone and someone points it out, you've gambled and lost twice. 

I also remind clients how quickly information travels on the web, especially when it comes to angry designers who will loudly protest the theft. If you appeal to the client's desire for a website that's actually profitable, they have to also be convinced that cheap knockoffs aren't going to get respect, aka visiblity, aka traffic, aka money, and that almost always turns their head around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roger, that&#8217;s a great idea for a separate blog post! I do have clients ask that a few times a year: &#8220;Can&#8217;t we just copy (our competitor&#8217;s) design and layout?&#8221;</p>
<p>My answer is, of course, no, but I try different techniques to convince them without disappointing them. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s often best to just point out that aping someone else&#8217;s design is self-defeating. If you pay lots of money for a clone and someone points it out, you&#8217;ve gambled and lost twice. </p>
<p>I also remind clients how quickly information travels on the web, especially when it comes to angry designers who will loudly protest the theft. If you appeal to the client&#8217;s desire for a website that&#8217;s actually profitable, they have to also be convinced that cheap knockoffs aren&#8217;t going to get respect, aka visiblity, aka traffic, aka money, and that almost always turns their head around.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/#comment-19438</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 20:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/#comment-19438</guid>
		<description>Obviously as you said, its natural for a designer to borrow ideas from a site they like.

I'm in the unenviable position of working for a small web/graphic design business, and I can't tell you how many times a client will come in and want *exactly* what another site has. They don't want us to design something original, they want to copy another site entirely. 

I have had my work ripped off before, and its not a good feeling. I just wish I knew how to dissuade my clients (or even my bosses sometimes) from taking that route.

Any ideas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously as you said, its natural for a designer to borrow ideas from a site they like.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in the unenviable position of working for a small web/graphic design business, and I can&#8217;t tell you how many times a client will come in and want *exactly* what another site has. They don&#8217;t want us to design something original, they want to copy another site entirely. </p>
<p>I have had my work ripped off before, and its not a good feeling. I just wish I knew how to dissuade my clients (or even my bosses sometimes) from taking that route.</p>
<p>Any ideas?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wayne</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/#comment-15886</link>
		<dc:creator>wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/#comment-15886</guid>
		<description>We've changed up our design a little to separate the two now.. also, I've noticed The Golf Channel, has changed up their background as well..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve changed up our design a little to separate the two now.. also, I&#8217;ve noticed The Golf Channel, has changed up their background as well..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/#comment-14118</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2008 13:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/#comment-14118</guid>
		<description>Maybe they don't have any recourse, but I would think that the designers of the original site are being damaged by this. Their once original design, which got them recognition, now looks almost exactly like the design of one of the biggest companies in the industry. For the people who didn't know which came first (most people), it's going to look like NCGolfers ripped off the Golf Channel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe they don&#8217;t have any recourse, but I would think that the designers of the original site are being damaged by this. Their once original design, which got them recognition, now looks almost exactly like the design of one of the biggest companies in the industry. For the people who didn&#8217;t know which came first (most people), it&#8217;s going to look like NCGolfers ripped off the Golf Channel.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Worst Way To Design a Site on the Web - WTF! &#124; White Sands Digital</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/#comment-14001</link>
		<dc:creator>The Worst Way To Design a Site on the Web - WTF! &#124; White Sands Digital</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 22:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/#comment-14001</guid>
		<description>[...] needs to hunt down the designer and giving him a good beating!  read more &#124; digg [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] needs to hunt down the designer and giving him a good beating!  read more | digg [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Darren</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/#comment-13991</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/#comment-13991</guid>
		<description>I don't disagree with anything Pete said. Legally, it's kind of a non-issue. But when it happens to you, it's a different story. No one likes that feeling of helplessness, especially when you're a small designer and they're a large company. 

Again, forget the legality or copyrights or licenses or other fine print for a second and just consider the 'common sense' judgment the Golf Channel failed to show. They'd clearly seen the site before since they advertised on it. And when asked about the redesign similarities, they did not (from the sound of it) offer the chance for any dialogue. That's two demonstrations of bad judgment from an organization that should know better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t disagree with anything Pete said. Legally, it&#8217;s kind of a non-issue. But when it happens to you, it&#8217;s a different story. No one likes that feeling of helplessness, especially when you&#8217;re a small designer and they&#8217;re a large company. </p>
<p>Again, forget the legality or copyrights or licenses or other fine print for a second and just consider the &#8216;common sense&#8217; judgment the Golf Channel failed to show. They&#8217;d clearly seen the site before since they advertised on it. And when asked about the redesign similarities, they did not (from the sound of it) offer the chance for any dialogue. That&#8217;s two demonstrations of bad judgment from an organization that should know better.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/#comment-13980</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 20:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/#comment-13980</guid>
		<description>Recourse for what? Getting design inspiration? This is a daily thing for designers, when you try to design based on a clients goals one of the first things you ask are other sites they like. Granted you don't turn around and do a "copy and paste" but you do use the style and layout as inspiration.  It doesn't help that the site that is claiming to be ripped off has now changed their background image to the same as the golf channel. It is truly hard nowadays to be completely original, unless you are going for a poor usability site chance are the layout your going to do has been done.

There are tons of layouts that are just like this, it obviously doesn't help that they are both in the same industry but this is nothing new. Exec at these big companies sometimes just say here is the site I like, lets remake it. At the end of the day nav, logo, banner ad and search are in the same spots, everything else is different with the carousel being close but far from the same. The way they have done the background I have seen many times before and honestly if I was thinking of designing a golf site I think I would have good for a similar background, it just plays well for the imagery of the industry.

They are both well done sites, Gold Channels is highly inspired but not a rip off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recourse for what? Getting design inspiration? This is a daily thing for designers, when you try to design based on a clients goals one of the first things you ask are other sites they like. Granted you don&#8217;t turn around and do a &#8220;copy and paste&#8221; but you do use the style and layout as inspiration.  It doesn&#8217;t help that the site that is claiming to be ripped off has now changed their background image to the same as the golf channel. It is truly hard nowadays to be completely original, unless you are going for a poor usability site chance are the layout your going to do has been done.</p>
<p>There are tons of layouts that are just like this, it obviously doesn&#8217;t help that they are both in the same industry but this is nothing new. Exec at these big companies sometimes just say here is the site I like, lets remake it. At the end of the day nav, logo, banner ad and search are in the same spots, everything else is different with the carousel being close but far from the same. The way they have done the background I have seen many times before and honestly if I was thinking of designing a golf site I think I would have good for a similar background, it just plays well for the imagery of the industry.</p>
<p>They are both well done sites, Gold Channels is highly inspired but not a rip off.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/#comment-13953</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 17:26:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenhoyt.com/2008/04/10/golfchannelcom-borrows-design-and-layout-from-ncgolfers/#comment-13953</guid>
		<description>Jesus, that's just blatant. Would NCGolfers have any legal recourse?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus, that&#8217;s just blatant. Would NCGolfers have any legal recourse?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
